Episode Transcript
Carey Griffel: [00:00:00] Welcome to Genesis Marks the Spot, where we raid the ivory tower of biblical theology without ransacking our faith. My name is Carey Griffel, and in this episode, I'm going to take a bit of a break from the worship series, which I have really been enjoying, and I hope you have too. And I'm going to go back into a little bit of an older series.
This episode is actually going to connect to two previous series. One of them is the Curses series, and one of them is the Spiritual Realm series. Now, you don't need to listen to all of those before you listen to this episode, so don't worry about that. But if you do want to know what those episodes are, the Spiritual Realm series is episodes number four, five, six, And then it jumps over to [00:01:00] Episodes 36 and 37.
And my Curses episodes are Numbers 20, 23, and 29. And again, you don't need to listen to all of that before you listen to this episode. But these episodes do connect together as themes. So I just think it's helpful to you as the listener if you want to connect those. And on my website, at GenesisMarksTheSpot. com, there is a tab that says Episodes. And you can click that, and there's the list of the series. So you can click on any one of those, and get a link to all of the episodes in the series. So long as I remember to link them there. Which I've been doing pretty good with that, so. So far, so good.
So, this episode is actually a little bit more geared toward the Spiritual Realm series than the Curses series, but it is very related to the Curses series, and I think that's going to be very clear as [00:02:00] I start talking.
So, really, the basic question that I'm trying to tackle here is, what's a spirit? What do they do? What can we say about it? How can we look at this from a biblical perspective? And can we really systemize the evil side of the spiritual realm? And I know I've touched on that quite a bit and said that we really need to be very careful in how we're trying to put all of those pieces together and think that we're super sure of what's going on.
But today I want to look at some passages. Because some people will take these passages, and then they'll kind of run with it in a direction that I genuinely think is not a biblical direction at all, and that is potentially harmful. Now, I want to say that there's a whole bunch of things in this that I am not saying, and I want to make that very clear.
It's equally necessary to know what I'm not saying, [00:03:00] As it is to know what I am saying, because once I start talking in some of these directions, people will get the wrong impression of what I'm saying. I am not saying that there is no spiritual realm that is influencing us, okay? Not saying that at all.
And I think that will be clear if you actually listen to what I'm saying in whole. But if you only take a part of what I'm saying, or if I'm responding to a particular question elsewhere, then people might think, Oh, I'm not taking the spiritual realm seriously. And that is absolutely not the case. So I want to put that kind of idea to bed right now.
I do take the spiritual realm seriously. I think it's a very real reality that we ought to be talking about it. And I think we ought to be talking about it accurately. Crazy. I know, right? So yes, absolutely. There is a spiritual reality behind what is going on in our lives [00:04:00] here on earth. But it's also essential to understand that fight in relation to other things that are also going on. in addition to a spiritual reality that needs to be addressed and needs to be acknowledged, there's also reality that happens here on earth that we need to deal with directly and those things are like sin and its consequences. The fact that we need to repent from what we're doing And there is an idea that our sin and the things that we do in our lives have a larger impact beyond us. So when we are engaged in sin and other things that are bad, those things are going to be propagated through the world because of our actions.
Now again, there is also that spiritual reality... As Paul says, we are engaged in battle with the spiritual reality. But there's a tendency in some to take that spiritual battle and then [00:05:00] say, that's all we have to do. If we just deal with that, then we're good. And this is where we connect back to my curses series.
Particularly in, I think it's my second episode, where I'm talking about generational curses, what those are and what does that mean. It's not that there isn't generational stuff that goes on, because there is. And it's not that there isn't a spiritual reality behind that, because, again, there is. But it's not simple and straightforward.
It's not just casting out a demon. And once again, I have to say, I'm not talking about not casting out demons here. I'm not saying that that's not a thing, I'm not saying that that's not something that has to be done on occasion, because it absolutely is. There might be demon possession going on. There might be a territorial spirit in an area that's affecting someone.
There might be something [00:06:00] in the spiritual realm going on that has to be dealt with. But we tend to simplify these things to an unhealthy degree. And by doing so, we cast off our responsibility. We cast off our need for repentance. And we cast off some of what's actually going on that we could really see in a more holistic light.
Not in a way that we can really parse everything out and see it super clearly, because we can't. There's a reason that the Unseen Realm is unseen. There's a lot there that we don't know what's going on. That doesn't mean it's not going to affect us. That doesn't mean that there's not stuff we can do about it.
But it's a lot of work. It's a long hard slog of getting through things. It's not just a prayer. It's not just some deliverance ministry, and then boom, you're free from these [00:07:00] consequences. That's not how things work. And once again, I will say that sometimes a deliverance might be part of what's going on.
It's not an either or thing. it's not the simplified thing that, boom, we're done with it. And for those who are calling on this idea that the church needs to be more aware of the spiritual realm, and the church needs to be more involved in spiritual warfare, I completely agree, but again, I think there are balanced ways to do it. And it's not a matter of boxing it all into a nice, neat, systematic theology in the way that some want to package it up into.
Okay, so in Genesis, we already have, just right from the beginning, we have the idea of spirit, right? And we have the person of the serpent, who I have been presenting as a spiritual being. [00:08:00] So, he's an embodied spiritual being. And so already, in the first chapters of Genesis, we have various ways of viewing the spiritual realm. And they're not really the same. The spirit hovering over the waters is kind of a different thing than the serpent in the garden. Which is kind of obvious when you're reading the story. But they're also kind of similar in a way because , they're both coming from that unseen realm and interacting with the world, right? So there's that connection of the spirit And the physical creation.
So just taking Genesis 1 and the spirit hovering over the waters, of course, many of us take that spirit to be the Holy Spirit, who is a person in himself. So the Holy Spirit is an actual being with personhood and drive and motivation and purpose and intent and everything that an actual [00:09:00] being could have. But the spirit hovering over the waters is also doing something. And in other places in Scripture, Spirit is described as this kind of a thing that is not necessarily associated with a particular being, but that acts like a being in certain ways.
And we can see this pretty clearly in Genesis 4. Or, as clearly as we can, anyway, it's a bit complicated and confusing and weird that sin in Genesis 4 is described as something that crouches at the door. It's described in demonic language, like it is a being. But I think if we read too much into that and say that that's only what it is, it is only demonic influence, we're really missing out on something that is essential for us to understand, especially as Christians who are following Christ, [00:10:00] who want to repent and follow him in the best way. Because James does say that our desires act like this too. Our desires are not a demonic being themselves. James 1, verses 14 and 15 says, quote, But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
Then desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death. End quote. So I think it's really misguided of us to really focus too tightly on that spiritual demonic influence. And, again, I'm not saying it's not there, and I'll get to how we can see that and understand it, because that is a reality.
But we are confronted with our desire and this earthly nature of things as well. And we [00:11:00] cannot, should not, discount that. It is very much a part of what's going on in our holistic picture.
Okay, so let's dig into scripture and look at the various ways that we see spirit in scripture. Spirit, or spiritual beings, or, you know, whatever like that.
And of course, it's a very big topic, so I'm just going to be kind of hitting some highlights on it. Not trying to be super comprehensive here, but I do want to hit on various types of ways that this is portrayed in Scripture. Part of our goal with that is to try and see what spirits can do. How they interact with the world and things like that, because when you're thinking in terms of being affected by Satan or demons, how does that work? What does that mean? [00:12:00] How does scripture show it happening?
Now, you might already know about the Hebrew term that is commonly translated as "spirit" in the Old Testament. is ruach, and it can mean wind, spirit, Or, it can also mean life, or breath. So that's a super wide range of meaning right there. And already right out of the gate, we can see that it doesn't always refer to an actual being, like a spirit, a ghost, or an Elohim.
And we already know that we can't just use the single word to encompass all of the spiritual realm, right? If we see the serpent in the garden as a spiritual being, he's not described with the term spirit, but we can still make these connections. But of course, if we take the spirit of God hovering over the waters as the Holy Spirit, one of the members of the Trinity, Then [00:13:00] spirit can refer to a sentient being, right?
Like a person in the spiritual realm. And a lot of times we think of that as immaterial, but we have angels who appear on earth. We have the serpent in the garden. We have prophets who have visions who seem to see something material. So it's kind of hard for us to talk about these things in language , that we can really convey what we're meaning.
I think better than immaterial might be unseen. But even then, it doesn't quite get us exactly there either, because sometimes you can see these things. Sometimes they are embodied so that we can see them either appearing on Earth or in visions, you know, and that kind of a thing. So, I don't want to get too bogged down in the immaterial and unseen and is there substance there or whatever.
That's kind of not the point of what we're even talking about, except that I do [00:14:00] want to acknowledge that there can be physical components to this thing that's going on around us. And the spiritual realm does interact with our realm. And I think the point that I would make about that is that it happens in a real way.
And it's kind of hard to explain exactly what I mean about that, because it's not like the spirit in the spiritual realm is waving this magic wand and just causing things to happen here. There's a real partnership where the heavens and the earth are kind of married together in a way. What it is, is the ancient idea of the mirroring of heaven and earth.
And you might then think of it as like people being puppets of the spiritual realm. But they're not puppets. They're active participants. That's my point. Is that it's not that the spiritual realm is moving these pieces [00:15:00] and ha ha, look at these people that are like our chess pieces. No, it's like the chess pieces are alive and participating in the actual game.
So when we're talking about the spiritual realm and beings who have free will up there so they can make choices, they can rebel, They can interact with the human world in a way that is contrary to God's will. Frequently, we're talking about the gods of the nations, right? And the way those would work would be through the pagan temple cults, or through the king of the pagan nation.
The king being the sole image of that deity, the representation of that deity. So, the kinds of decisions that the king made would reflect on the deity. And of course, we're thinking about how the pagan deity is influencing the king to make those decisions, right? But the king isn't the deity's puppet, there's that symbiotic relationship.
This idea that the king's actions and [00:16:00] the pagan temple's actions can influence the deity just as much as the deity can influence them. So it's kind of a synergism of a back and forth. Both things happening at the same time and reflecting one another. And, of course, the Israelites, when they went off and did their pagan idolatry instead of worshipping the true God, that was absolutely influenced by pagan deities.
But it's not like the pagan deities were just showing up themselves in person to the Israelites. I mean, maybe they were, sometimes, I don't know. We don't have records of that. But more likely, they were being influenced by the people around them. That's one reason why it was such a bad thing to have all of the Canaanites in the land.
If they weren't all worshiping Yahweh, they were going to pull the Israelites along with them to worship their pagan gods. So the gods were having an influence because of the other people [00:17:00] around. And quite often it was because of the women in the land. We have situations where they were purposefully doing this.
Sending women to influence the Israelites. So it's not that a whole bunch of evil angels were coming down and swooping in and showing the Israelites alternative deities to worship. It was the people around them. It was that real physical interaction with other people who were themselves in relationship to these other deities.
So I think what we need to keep in mind as far as that is that there is a communal influence, and that can happen immediately inside a group, and it can happen over time within a tribe, or a family, or people who influence one another through time. But again, does that just mean that we're just puppets that are pulled along?
No, we're influenced by these things, and we can participate in [00:18:00] it. We can be influenced by the consequences that arise from all of that. But the question is participation. Are you participating? And what are you participating in and with? Okay, so along with that human influence that is connected to the divine in some way, and by divine, I just mean that spiritual realm.
There is also direct influence from the spiritual realm to our realm in the form of spirits sent to actively influence one way or another and that kind of thing. In 1st Kings 22, for instance, we have a scene where God's trying to figure out what to do with Ahab, and he opens the floor to his counsel to suggest what might happen.
And a spirit comes forward and says, Yeah, I'll entice him to do this thing so that he can get the consequences of his actions. It's a strange event in scripture because the spirit is described as a lying [00:19:00] spirit in the mouths of the prophets. That's definitely not something we expect to see, but for our purposes, what we're seeing here is that spirits are sent out to directly influence.
Now, do the other gods have that power? I don't know. I know a lot of people wonder, how do we know which gods are real, and who they are, and... What they're actually doing, and the fact is, we don't know. And we can't really know, because they are deceitful, they are rebellious, they aren't interested in the truth.
And if you remember from that episode when we were reading the Babylonian Job, even their followers had no idea. They didn't know what the gods wanted. It was just kind of a guessing game, and shooting in the dark. And we assume that this has to do with our god, because that's just how things work. But we don't really know why or how that is, so trying to be too firm on this and say this is how it works and these are [00:20:00] all of the pieces, it's really not necessary to go down that route of trying to be absolutely sure and buttoned down about all of that. We know there's influence, we know it's a reality. But we're treading dangerous waters if we want to connect the dots too closely, I think.
Alright, I know I tend to repeat myself in that a lot, but it's just that I see it so often. People get so deep into wanting to be sure about this, and thinking that they really know exactly what's going on, and, and in anything, that kind of surety closes the door on a lot of critical thinking and learning that you might have.
I just want you to keep being curious, I want you to keep exploring, I want you to keep an open mind, because that's how the best learning happens. That's how we can best learn from each other and our different perspectives, and not being super dogmatic about [00:21:00] something allows us to try and enter into another perspective and try to understand exactly what somebody else is saying.
That's necessary when we're talking to one another in our different worlds and perspectives and views, but it's also necessary when we're approaching the Bible. Because it's like another person. You're interacting with somebody so foreign to your current context when you're reading the Bible, you need to have those skills of having the open mind and really being able to listen and not be too sure in yourself.
Okay, so before we move on to a different way of viewing spirit in the Bible, I do want to take a moment to acknowledge the kind of demonic activity that we see in the New Testament. Now, I am far from being an expert on demonology and exorcisms and deliverance. I'm just going to say that there are various ways that this is looked at.
And if [00:22:00] you're interested in the topic, then I suggest Looking at the various ideas without trying to decide that there has to be one firm thing going on and you have to understand it and know what's going on. What I suggest overall is looking at what the Bible says and seeing that there is this reality that is being presented and that there is definitely spiritual warfare that goes on.
If you talk to somebody who has had experience in casting out demons, in exorcisms, in deliverance ministry, I'm not gonna try and combat their experiences, okay? I don't really know why it looks like it's so different from time to time and place to place. I'm pretty sure you can go to some places in this world, today, where things look very different than they do in my current neighborhood.
And I do think that's tied to the territorial spirits . But again, I [00:23:00] don't need to get tied up in understanding that minutely. I think that's a waste of time. I think that's leading us down the wrong path. Sometimes, there might be things you need to know depending on the circumstance that you're in.
Sometimes, there might be revelation or information that you have that is particular to what you're dealing with. I don't know. I'm not going to judge any of that and say yes or no to any of that because that's today's context and there are very many different places and realities that people are experiencing things in.
And whether the idea is that demons can possess people or just influence them, and how much of a difference is there between those two things, it's really hard to say. In the New Testament, there are those stories of the unclean spirits within people and Jesus casting them out. And it seems as though Jesus does give his followers that power to cast out demons.
Of course, [00:24:00] there's a big hubbub today over, does this happen today? Was that only for the time of the New Testament? There's so much that you can get wrapped up into. And my only suggestion is don't try and follow paths that are not necessary. If you're in a situation where you need that information, then you can probably find what you're looking for, but try to stick to resources that are solid.
Talk to other people, get input around you, and Get the strength of the body of Christ so that you're not just trying to follow this path of knowledge by yourself. I have lost track of the number of debates I've seen between people and arguments of... christians can be possessed. No, they can't. And this whole butting of heads over something that I think is really not as firm as we want it to be.
I mean, the thing is, there are experiences. And sometimes [00:25:00] when people are really passionate and trying to convince other people, it's because they've had some sort of experience or they know people who have had an experience. And they want other people to take it as seriously as they do, right? But you don't have to take it a certain way and understand it a certain way in order to take it seriously.
I think quite often we're just speaking past each other and not quite grasping the perspective of the other person. I'm slightly getting off topic here. But it reminds me of other types of paranormal experiences. People will tell about their experiences and you're like, well, I don't, what do I do with that?
Do I believe them? And sometimes maybe it's just a matter of, you should just be there to listen to them and keep your open mind. Because sometimes it's not that we need a firm answer on absolutely everything. My personal opinion is that the Unseen Realm [00:26:00] is way more complicated and weird than we can ever know.
And so often our experiences reflect that, I think. They sound bizarre. They sound strange. People don't know how to process them. But therein is also the point that we need the framework in order to understand and process it. We need something. Because there's so many people out there who have a paranormal or strange experience, they don't have the framework of Christianity, and so they go off into la la land, and sometimes they have serious mental issues, and their lives fall apart.
So at least from the perspective of Christianity, we can look at these things and we can go, okay, we might not know exactly what's going on here, but it does fit into the framework that we have. We might not exactly know how that plays out, or, there might be a whole lot we don't [00:27:00] know. There might not be a whole lot we can ever figure out.
But for sure, all of that supernatural stuff, paranormal stuff, spiritual stuff, We do have the right framework to view it from. And this kind of goes back to the idea that, you know, the gospel is actually, it's not complicated. The story of the Bible, it's not complicated. You can just pick up your Bible and understand it.
And that's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of real truth, when you have that simple, straightforward clarity. That also has all of these layers that we can't quite grasp. We maybe can't wrap our hands entirely around it, but it's there and we can explore it in this good framework that we have and that's what I think we need to be taking away from a lot of this.
Okay, so we're going to switch directions now in the [00:28:00] conversation, and I want to talk about how spirit in the Bible can be seen a little bit differently than just a spiritual being, an Elohim of some type. The gods of the nations, the heavenly host, the angels, demons, all of that. This isn't an either or, it depends on context.
Is the context talking about spiritual beings influencing people and doing various things, good or bad? Or, is the text talking about something else? And occasionally it can be that the text is talking about both things, and we'll get into that here shortly. But first, we're just going to dive into some Bible passages.
The first one is a little bit harder for us English readers of the Bible to see, unless we're reading a version that has some cool footnotes that make note of this, which the ESV does, [00:29:00] the English Standard Version. The end of Genesis 26 says, quote, When Esau was 40 years old, he took Judith, the daughter of Bere, the Hittite, to be his wife, and Basimath, the daughter of Elon, the Hittite, and they made life bitter for Isaac and Rebekah.
What we're looking at is that phrase, And they made life bitter. The ESV footnote says that in Hebrew, it means that they were bitterness of spirit. That's an interesting turn of phrase, and I can see why they don't translate it that way in English, because it sounds awkward, and it's kind of a particular idiom.
I'm fairly certain they're not being influenced by a demonic type entity there. So their bitterness of spirit is presumably about their attitudes. It's about the way they present themselves. It's about the way they act and affect [00:30:00] Isaac and Rebecca. It seems what we're supposed to understand about this is that they acted in a way that irritated Isaac and Rebecca.
So, their behavior caused a spirit of something to be present. A spirit of bitterness. Were they bitter or were Isaac and Rebecca bitter? I'd probably say they were all bitter towards each other. It caused that kind of atmosphere that you have at some family reunions or get togethers where people aren't getting along and the air just feels charged and you can even walk into a room and feel that.
So that's another type of spirit that can be happening. It doesn't have to be influenced or caused by a spiritual being. Now, it's been suggested by some that rebellious spiritual entities are drawn towards that kind of thing. And if you have that mirroring [00:31:00] of heaven and earth going on, it's quite likely that that atmosphere and that feeling is reflected.
So I'm not discounting the possibility that there could be spirits involved, but they're not causing this to happen. This is a purely human situation, one that I think many of us have been in and can feel and empathize with. And if you're at that family party and people aren't getting along and you think that a fight might break out or something, Well, it's fully within the capability and responsibility of the humans in the room to be able to control themselves. That's what we expect in general society, right?
All right, well, let's look at another example of this. In Numbers 5, we have that strange situation with the woman who is accused of adultery, and they're supposed to go through this [00:32:00] procedure to see whether she's guilty or innocent, right? Well, in that chapter, it talks about a spirit of jealousy.
If her husband is overcome with the spirit of jealousy, then he is supposed to be doing this thing in order to determine her innocence or not. Spirit of jealousy. That's the kind of language we hear in those circles of Christianity that talk about generational curses and things like that, right?
Remember that episode that I did on generational curses and we talked about spirits of divorce and spirits of poverty and spirits of this and spirits of that. There's spirits for all manner of things. Well, this sounds like that. There's a spirit of jealousy, but once again, reading in the context of the text.... the husband isn't being influenced by some sort of spiritual entity. He's feeling jealous, okay? The spirit of [00:33:00] jealousy coming upon him is the feeling of jealousy, which is influencing him to act to, mitigate that feeling. In fact, the grain offering used, it's called the grain offering of jealousy. And also there's a grain offering of remembrance.
So there's this whole thing going on. And there's a spirit attached to it. It's not a demonic spirit. No evil spirit is causing this to happen, or influencing it. It's just the general thing that's going on, right? Let's look at yet another example. In Ecclesiastes chapter 7, verses 9 and 10, it says, Be not quick in your spirit to become angry, for anger lodges in the heart of fools. Say not, Why were the former days better than these? For it is not from wisdom that you ask this.
So, once again, we see spirit attached to emotion, [00:34:00] to feeling. Today, you might hear people talking about a spirit of anger, and they really mean that there's a demonic force that's making you angry. That's not what's going on here. We can just feel angry.
Jumping ahead to Romans 8, 15, Paul says, For you did not receive a spirit of slavery, to fall back into fear. But you have received the Spirit of Adoption as sons, by whom we cry Abba, Father.
Now here it's an interesting thing. We have the Spirit of Slavery contrasted with the Spirit of Adoption. And quite likely, the reference of the Spirit of Adoption is the Holy Spirit. So that's a person. So is the spirit of slavery also a spiritual being? Well, for one thing, it's something that we're receiving, just like we receive the Holy Spirit. And I don't think that kind [00:35:00] of language is used for other spiritual beings.
So no, I don't think the spirit of slavery is is a demonic entity that's crouching trying to find people to drag into slavery. There's something else going on there with this kind of language of spirit of something. I said this week somewhere else that it's not biblical language to say a spirit of something or other.
And what I meant was in the context of these places in Christianity where they're talking about the spirit of this and the spirit of that, and they're genuinely referring to a spiritual demonic entity who is over that kind of a feeling. Like, there's a particular spiritual being who is assigned the spirit of anger, and if you're angry, then you are being influenced by that particular demonic entity.
That's the way they talk [00:36:00] about these things, is that there are particular beings who are over these kinds of things. The spirit of poverty is the demon who is forcing you to be in poverty. And if you cast that demon out, then you no longer have to be under the spirit of poverty. So, supposedly, you're not going to be poor anymore if you cast that demon out.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, is that the spirit of whatever we're talking about, As a physical or immaterial or whatever, a real spirit being who needs to be cast out. And if we just deal with that spiritual warfare, then we no longer have to worry about this problem. I don't think that's what the spirit of slavery is.
I don't think that's what the spirit of jealousy is. It's not something that we need to cast out, and then suddenly, we don't worry about [00:37:00] slavery or jealousy anymore. That is not how the Bible is talking about these things. It is not using this word spirit to refer to an actual demonic entity. And trying to attach it to a demonic entity, specifically, is missing the point.
And the problem is that you're going to be dealing with your problems in a way that is unhealthy. Here's another one in 2 Timothy 1, 7, which says, For God gave us a spirit, not of fear, but of power and love and self control. So, there we go, a spirit of fear, or a spirit of love. Or a spirit of power and a spirit of self control.
God is giving us these things. He's not giving us spiritual entities here. Now, again, I will make the point that this doesn't mean there isn't a spiritual reality that can be [00:38:00] connected with what's going on. In the case of this verse, maybe we do have some spiritual help in the form of guardian angels, other types of angels. We certainly have the Holy Spirit that is helping us along. So these things are attached to a reality that can be real, but that doesn't mean we can't own these feelings as if they're coming from ourselves, because we can.
Okay, so there's quite a few others that I could bring out here to discuss. But there's one other in the Old Testament that I want to get to, and that one is in the book of Hosea.
Hosea 4. 12. It says, quote, My people inquire of a piece of wood, and their walking staff gives them oracles. For a spirit of whoredom has led them astray, and they have left their God to play the whore. End quote.
So, here's something different, right? [00:39:00] This sounds like a spirit is genuinely influencing them, right? It's doing something. Okay, so let's back up to our modern context, though. If somebody in Christianity today was talking about a spirit of whoredom, they would probably, in the context that I'm talking about, in this idea that we have demonic spirits who curse people and influence them in this way. The spirit of whoredom would be a spirit Who is causing people to act in this way, right?
And quite likely, to be honest, if they're pulling this out of scripture and using it as a term, they're talking about literal sexual immorality. Like, they're zoning in on that particular action. So the spirit here is the one that is over that kind of action and influence. So like, if you're in a family with generational [00:40:00] curses, This is how the story goes, and you have this curse from the spirit of whoredom, then your tendency in that family is going to be to act in that way, because of this demonic influence.
And if you want to stop that influence and , this generational curse, if you want to stop that. Then you have to cast out that particular demon. That's what I'm talking about is this kind of use of the term. And I'm not making this stuff up. This is really what's going on. This is really how people are seeing it. This is really how people are using this kind of language. They're focusing in on the sins of people and saying that those things are curses that are caused by demonic entities. That's what I'm talking about here. And is that what we are seeing in Hosea? That's the big question. And like [00:41:00] always, guess what we're going to do?
We're going to broaden our reading, and we're going to look at the whole chapter. We're going to see what is Hosea talking about. Is he specifically worried about the sin of sexual immorality here? Is that his main concern? Because if, if that is his main concern, then the spirit of whoredom might be exactly what people say it might be, right?
This entity who is causing people to act in sexually immoral ways. These are the dots we're connecting. One, to the next, to the next. But, as faithful readers of the Bible, we want to understand what the context is, what the original meaning was. Were they talking about a specific entity here? Let's look at the context.
Remembering that this kind of grammatical construct has [00:42:00] been used before in places where it's not referring to a demonic entity. The spirit of jealousy, the spirit of slavery. Now, of course, here in Hosea, the spirit of whoredom is leading them astray. So, we do have this spirit of whoredom doing something.
So, let's look at this closely. Okay, let's go back to verse 1. The last part of that verse says that there is no faithfulness or steadfast love and no knowledge of God in the land. Verse 2 says there is swearing, lying, murder, stealing, and committing adultery. They break all bonds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed.
Okay, so we do have the idea of adultery here. It's inside this longer list of things that are going on. So it's not just adultery that they're talking about, but it is part of , what's going on in this chapter. [00:43:00] The chapter goes on and talks more about their sin and the state of the people of Israel.
Immediately after that first verse that I read, verse 12, it talks about sacrifice. It talks about sacrifice on the high tops of mountains, and burning offerings on the hills, under oaks and other trees. And then it talks about daughters playing the whore, and brides committing adultery. Verse 14 talks specifically about temple prostitutes.
Verse 15 talks about Israel in general playing the whore. So, are we talking just about the sin of sexual immorality? That's part of it, it's certainly involved, but is the spirit of whoredom, which, by the way, that first verse I talked about was also talking about idols, is the spirit of whoredom something that is just attached to sexual immorality, and that's it.
[00:44:00] No, that's definitely not what's going on here in this chapter. . What Hosea 4 is talking about here is spiritual adultery, worshipping other gods other than Yahweh. And of course, the covenant of Israel is referred to as a marriage covenant. They are Yahweh's bride.
So when they turn to other gods, they are committing adultery. So the spirit of whoredom is talking about the people attaching themselves to other gods, worshiping other gods. So in this case, are there other spiritual entities involved? Yes, there are, because they are worshipping the other gods of the nations.
So the spirit of whoredom isn't just one thing, though, because there are multiple gods that they're worshipping. There's not just one. There's multiple gods, and so even though there are spiritual entities [00:45:00] that are involved here, it's not the type of demonic activity that is the generational curse upon a family who's causing that family to suffer this sin.
This is a much broader context about covenantal faithfulness to Yahweh versus other gods. And when you're making the wrong choice there, Then you're committing adultery. This is obvious with the connections with the idols. With the sacrifices on the high places. This is pagan worship we're talking about.
So part of my point here is that you can't just extract this particular term and then Start switching some words out and say, Well, there's a spirit of whoredom here. So, now let's talk about a spirit of drunkenness. And now let's talk about a spirit of drug abuse. As if these are specific demonic entities that are causing specific [00:46:00] things on a small scale.
What Hosea is talking about is the entire nation of Israel. He's talking about the gods of the nations. He's not referring to little, small demons who influence in this way or that way in particular. You can't take this passage and this term out and this, just , start swapping words out just because you feel like it.
There's no spirit of divorce that's causing the divorce that's running rampant in a family. And again, there might be spiritual realities that are attached to that and influencing it. But it is not a matter of just tossing out that one demon and then Suddenly you're good, but that's the way this is talked about and that's the danger of it It's leading people down this path of this easy answer to your problems and it in and of itself is a form of tying people into Reductionism which is a problem because we have very [00:47:00] very complex problems that need to be dealt with from many different angles And if we're not dealing with our problems from these various angles, which do include spiritual realities, but first and foremost, there are other things that probably need to be dealt with first, such as just sheer repentance, and things of that nature.
Repentance is a form of spiritual warfare. Because when you're repenting, you are turning away from something else, and you're turning to... Yahweh, you're turning to Jesus, you're turning to God, you're turning to the right kind of worship. I love that the conversation has switched over into worship, because it's so essential. This is such an important part of what we're talking about here.
Okay, so I'm just about ready to wrap it up into my main point that I'm trying to get to in this episode. By the way, if you are hearing strange knocking and demonic [00:48:00] sounds coming from this episode. It's because my children are being loud and I'm just wanting to finish this episode so I haven't gone to tell them to be quiet.
I mean, in a way, it kind of feels authentic to my whole topic here. So, all right, so let's talk about how spirits can be something other than an entity while still acting like an entity in a way. Because a spirit of jealousy and a spirit of whoredom and a spirit of all these other types of things that we're thinking about. There are particular goals and purposes that this kind of spirit is organized towards. In the context that I'm talking now, I am going to suggest that a spirit is an organizing center, or framework, or structure, or principle. The spirit of something is structuring a [00:49:00] hierarchy of sorts. That is, that there's something that is keeping things together and organized and in a certain direction.
So, there's action involved. There's something that's going on that is under this umbrella of the spirit. So, the spirit is restraining things in a way, because if you step outside of the boundaries of the spirit, then you're not within the spirit anymore, right? If you no longer feel jealous, then you're no longer , under the spirit of jealousy.
When you don't feel anger, you're not under the spirit of anger. So, that restraining force, the spirit of something, it can be a living being. Like the Holy Spirit can be our spirit, and it can restrain us. It's organizing us into the new creation. It's doing things to us to sanctify us, to do all of these things that the Spirit does for us.
So, [00:50:00] as far as that goes, it's... The spirit is connected to an entity. You can have the same thing that goes on inside a family. The head of the household of the family might be the one who is influencing the spirit of the household. And that can be good, or it can be bad, or it can be neutral. It could be indifferent and just, it is what it is.
The spirit of an event is the feeling that is going on with the event, because there are certain things that are happening along with it. There's probably certain personalities involved, certain types of activities. The spirit of an event is a particular thing. You have school spirit, and that's supposed to be manifested in a particular way.
I would say patriotism falls under this category as well. And something that is a spirit is organizing a group of people into one structure of meaning. They have particular goals or interests, or there's [00:51:00] something that is connecting the people that's going on, right? So a concert, you have a spirit at that concert.
Going back to the family reunion, there can be a particular spirit that overshadows that. You can have spirit of all kinds of emotions. The spirit of joy. The spirit of resentment. And again, these things can be influenced by living entities. If you bring a new baby into the house, there is a different spirit in your home.
But again, the spirit in your home, it's not the same as the child. The spirit of the family is not the same as the patriarch, or what have you. It's connected to that, but it's not the same as that. And it doesn't have to be connected directly to a living entity, really. It can be connected to an institution, or a social structure, or a company, or a type of music.
Lots of things can have spirits. And when I was [00:52:00] talking about the Spirit of God hovering over the waters in Genesis 1, that's the kind of spirit I'm talking about here. Not that that can't also be the Holy Spirit, but what the Spirit is doing in hovering over the waters, it's an organizing thing. And that's what's going on in Genesis 1, as I've explained many times before, there's the organization of the cosmos.
That's what's really the focus in that chapter. And it's fascinating to me, because that's what's going on in the New Creation as well. The Spirit of God inside of us is organizing us into the structure and the people that God has intended all along, that we're meant to be. Organizing us into the best we can be.
So obviously the Spirit of God is like the highest form of a spirit you could have, right? But there are many other kinds and substructures of spirit. And I feel like that's intentional, [00:53:00] because we also are part of making the cosmos, right? We're supposed to rule and subdue and order the cosmos. And as we do that, we should be doing it under the Spirit of God, but we're doing it also in our own ways, so kind of in our own spirits.
So if that's what we're talking about, if we're talking about the spirit of alcohol or the spirit of violence. Then, okay, because you can tackle that in a particular way that involves the way that we're participating with that spirit. Because that's key. We can participate with a spirit, or we cannot. We can choose to be a patriotic person in our country, or we can choose not to be, and we can fight against that spirit.
That's a choice that we have. And our choices... Collectively, create that reality. If suddenly everyone in the country [00:54:00] decided they weren't going to be patriotic anymore, that would change the entire spirit of the country in a big way. If your family has a history of certain types of activities or behaviors, and you choose to turn to God and repent, and you're changing your life in various ways through various steps, Then that is going to break that spirit.
And this kind of thing surrounds our life day to day, every moment in our families, in our relationships, in the way that we choose to go about our work, certainly in the way we worship. And of course, in the Bible, we see that spirituality and connecting with the spiritual realm, it's very much a participatory thing.
If you're worshiping another God, or you're turning away from God and worshiping yourself or whatever it is. That is an active thing. We even see this in the way the Israelites [00:55:00] and God relate to one another. God offers the covenants and the people have to respond. God didn't just make a covenant with Abraham and say, okay, all of your descendants are good.
There's no more covenants that need to happen. We're done with that now. No, he made a covenant with Abraham. He renewed it with Isaac and Jacob. There was the covenant on Sinai. When the people entered into the land after that, they had to agree to the covenant. This is a participatory thing. It's an active thing.
It requires action. I mean, let's say that there is a spirit that's going on at an event that you're at. You can choose to go into that event and completely violate the spirit of that event. Or you can just go along with what's going on. Now, it can be the case that you're going along and you're not really sure what's, what's happening, and you're just kind of following what's happening [00:56:00] around you.
But even then, We are conscious beings, we have choices, we make decisions, and even if we're not fully aware of what's going on around us, We're still actively doing something as a part of being in that situation. Now, let's step over into the context of sin and bad behaviors that follow along in families and tribal groups and nations.
We're all really aware that it tends to be super easy to just follow the crowd. Just keep the status quo. That's the natural tendency of a lot of people. And so when the general flow and the general spirit is going a certain direction, it's way easier just to keep that going than it is to disrupt it, at least in general.
So if we are in a situation in a family where there are those sinful tendencies that go from generation to generation to generation, [00:57:00] It is difficult to stand up to it and do something about it. There is absolutely stuff that is going on that needs to be broken. I'm just saying that it's not this simple thing of, cast out this demon with these couple of steps and this prayer, and then you're good.
There's way more that's going on. And the first step, I would say, is repentance. Jesus didn't come and proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven and say, Here I am to destroy all principalities and powers. And death, by the way. Even though he did all of that, his call was repentance. And repentance was part of breaking the principalities and powers.
It's that step of aligning ourselves with God, repenting from where we were, in the sense of turning to God, giving Him our allegiance, which that trickles down into our behavior and our [00:58:00] actions, right? Like, back when I was talking about Hosea and the spirit of whoredom, it's not that there wasn't a spirit of sexual immorality going on, because there was.
And it was part of the breaking of the National Covenant. But if you're only focused on these particular sins... Then you're missing the wider construct of allegiance that needs to be going on, and repentance. It's interesting to me that sometimes I'll say something against the idea of generational curses, and people will get defensive.
They'll say, oh, well, you've not had my experience. You don't know about this, and you don't know about that. Well, that's true. And again, I'm not denying that there can be spiritual entities involved. Absolutely, there can be, and there probably are. It's got that mirroring of heaven and earth going on, remember?
And I don't deny that there are things that follow along in families. And if we're talking [00:59:00] about spirits in this organizational principle kind of a way, then that's fine. But most people aren't going to understand that that's what you're saying. And that's not what most people are talking about. Just because they're using the same terms doesn't mean that the same meaning is being meant.
And maybe you think this doesn't matter. Maybe you think it's not a big deal. to be this particular. Maybe you think I'm being nitpicky. Well, call me crazy, but I think that it's kind of important to have a more accurate view. Or, in the words of one of my earlier podcasts, to be less wrong. And while it's very serious that people are under demonic influence of whatever type, And they're under spirits of whatever, however that ends up being in their situation.
It's also the case that many people are trapped in a cycle of thinking that they're just not [01:00:00] good enough. They're not praying enough. If they could pray more and pray harder, then the things that they're struggling with would vanish. And that... is exceptionally harmful and very prevalent in some areas.
You have people struggling and they don't know why they're struggling. And it's painful to watch. And that is what I would say is the spirit of bondage. And they need to be released from that. Not by having more faith, or praying a little bit harder, or casting out a demon in a certain particular way, but just Genuinely turning to God, giving him your full attention, your full worship, your full allegiance.
That is the necessary thing that needs to happen here. And a lot of people just are under the impression that there is an easy out, [01:01:00] somehow they're not quite reaching that easy out because they're still suffering and they don't know why, and it's because they're not looking at this holistically.
They're not repenting and looking at their lives and saying, there are more steps and more facets to this. It is hard work to get through some of these things. It really is.
At any rate, I hope that I have kind of widened some of your perspective, unless you already knew all of the stuff already. I do want to mention a great conversation , that just happened to line up with what I'm talking about today, and I'm going to link it in my show notes.
It's on YouTube. And it's part of the Cosmic Corner series on the channel Faith Unaltered. There was a fantastic discussion about this concept of spirit as a guiding and organizing principle. So if you want to hear more about that angle of things, I highly [01:02:00] recommend listening to that conversation, which I will be linking in my show notes.
So shout out and much thanks to Joshua, garrett, Spencer, Troy, and Travis for that discussion. And they really do go into some depth to explain it. I highly recommend listening to it.
Alright, well, I guess that is it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. If you have any comments or questions, I would love to hear them. You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on my discussion group. You can find me at genesismarksthespot at gmail. com. You can message me through my website at genesismarksthespot. com. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for sharing my episodes. Thank you for rating my podcast. And a really big shout out to all of my Patreon and PayPal supporters. You guys are awesome and really helpful. I am going to be trying [01:03:00] to get newsletters out, so if you've signed up through my website to receive my newsletter, you can look forward to that. And for any of you who celebrate, Happy Halloween! And no, Halloween is not a pagan holiday, so you can enjoy your candy in peace.
Alright, well I hope you guys have a blessed week, and we will see you later.
